Talk:Chinese Immigrants
Re-do I'd like to start off this message by saying this: I hate this page. I find it unnecessary. The characters mentioned on this page have it written on their articles that they are Chinese immigrants. However, if other users don't agree that it should be deleted, I think it should at least be re-named to just "Immigrants". I don't think it's important that the immigrants are Chinese, so this way we could include all of the immigrants, like: *Stanley Palmer - England *Gus McCallum - Scotland *Dieter Frommel - Germany *Diarmuid O'Keefe - Ireland (Possibly) We could mention these guys, and the other immigrants, as well as the Chinese immigrants. If we keep it "Chinese Immigrants", we have to create seperate pages like "English Immigrants", "Irish Immigrants", etc. So, there's my rant. I just wanted to say I found the page unnecessary as it mentions characters' origins on their respective articles, and I also provided my solution should users disagree with my opinion that the page should be deleted. That's all I wanted to say and I meant no offence by it, so I'm sorry if I came across as rude. Sláinte mhaith! - Hobbes (Talk) 00:31, May 13, 2011 (UTC) :Agreed. I don't support taking away the article completely, but renaming it to immigrants and maintaining a section on Chinese immigrants (obviously the most visible immigrant minority) is something I support.GeneralGoose 06:55, May 13, 2011 (UTC) ::First of all, as an article I think it's a good one - well structured, well written, appropriate links, etc. The question for me is whether it is relevant to Red Dead Redemption vs. the American West. If the former, it belongs here, while if the latter, linking out to Wikipedia from individual character pages would be more appropriate. ::For the majority of the Chinese immigrants listed on the page, and for the four individuals mentioned by Hobbes as well, their immigration status is irrelevant to the game. Many of them are just "gamblers with a different accent." Even for more prominent characters, like Irish or Andreas Müller, their background is largely just a footnote and the same character could just as easily have been written to be from another land. ::The one exception is Zhou and the "Love is the Opiate" stranger mission (and tangentially "Poppycock"). Here the fact that he is an immigrant is relevant to the story and I think providing a little background on Chinese immigrants, indentured servitude, and the role of opium at the time is justified. Having said that, I think that background would be better suited as a section on the "Love is the Opiate" page since it is irrelevant to the other Chinese immigrants linked from this page (none of whom appear to be indentured servants, addicted to opium, etc.). ::So, I wouldn't agree with changing this to a general Immigrants page - besides the fact that immigration status is irrelevant outside of this one example, it would also get messy (e.g. people claiming that Newspaper Boy probably immigrated from Sweden "cuz he looks like this kid I know from Stockholm"). My preference would be moving the relevant parts to the "Love is the Opiate" page and then adjusting the character pages that currently reference this one. Alternately, I'm also fine with leaving the page as is - it doesn't bother me too much since there is the small justification from Zhou. As a third option, instead of a page maybe a branch of the Characters category tree could be used to tag the various character backgrounds (I don't like this option myself, but compared to the general Immigrants page I think it would be easier to keep a check on). ::2ks4 15:40, May 13, 2011 (UTC) :::You've got some good points, 2ks4. I'd just like to clarify that I don't hate this article because it's badly written, I just don't find it useful. The history written on the page is more about the American West and not so much about history in Red Dead Redemption. If I were to have my way, the page would be deleted; most of the history of Chinese immigrants would go on the "Love is the Opiate" page; and the immigrants' articles would be expanded slightly to include a little more detail of their origins. If Zhou is the only real justification for keeping the page, it's not worth it, as the information could easily go on the "Love is the Opiate" page or Zhou's article. However, that's just what I think, and we'll have to get some more opinions/ideas. :::Sláinte mhaith! - Hobbes (Talk) 16:43, May 13, 2011 (UTC) :::P.S. Regarding the four immigrants I mentioned - There are more, I just listed a few as examples. ::::Hello, this is LyHungViet, the guy who created this page and put in most of the information and character pages. I'd just like to say that the reason I created this article was because at the time I did not know all the identities of the Chinese characters, and just wanted to have a page to represent them. I feel that now all the notable ones have their own articles there is no more need for this page. The idea of making just a general "Immigrants" page for everyone not born an American would, in my opinion, be very messy and hard to manage, since so many characters in this game are from different backgrounds. We would have to reference all the people like the random (but named) Mexican laborers appearing in places like New Austin, and I feel it would just be too complicated. Therefore, I suggest that this article be removed and relevant information be put in each charater's Trivia section. As the person who created most of the pages for the Asian characters in this game (bar Zhou and Thao Long) I don't have a problem with seeing the Chinese Immigrants page go. :::User:LyHungViet ::::This is a tought decision. I see Hobbes' point that there are not only Chinese immigrants, but Irish, Scottish, German, etcetera...I also see 2ks4's point about whether this article relates to RDR or the Old West. However, I do not agree that this should be merged with Love is the Opiate because the focus of that stranger mission is not Chinese immigrants in particular, that's only a small part of it. It wasn't even necessary for Zhou's role to be portrayed as a Chinaman - it could've been an Irishman, German, Frenchman, anybody, really. What I think is that this page should be deleted, and any characters in the 'Notable Immigrants' section should have just a short sentence added to their pages that say something like, "________ is a Chinese immigrant," if such is not already added to their pages. Does that make sense to everyone? Sam samurai 18:17, June 19, 2011 (UTC)